tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post300350236196775969..comments2024-01-01T02:00:30.576+00:00Comments on American Irish: Dealing With HatredAmerican Irishhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17735396614398596021noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-88447108906358744112009-05-17T15:13:00.000+01:002009-05-17T15:13:00.000+01:00Well...A.I......if I considered you good enough to...Well...A.I......if I considered you good enough to spar with at the gym but later that night was having Westlife perform live at my apartment and decided to do the typical NYC "gay" thing and invited your boyfriend and not you (because it's "..Catholics only..") you'd consider me the enemy. (Just an example. I'd never really do that, and your b.f. would never accept the invitation).Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17439628067348828822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-46156941495116023882009-05-16T15:07:00.000+01:002009-05-16T15:07:00.000+01:00Joey, don't think of me as the "enemy". We just h...Joey, don't think of me as the "enemy". We just have different life experiences. What works for my life may not work for yours and vice versa. That doesn't make anyone wrong or bad or the enemy. It just makes us different which is what makes this world what it is.American Irishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17735396614398596021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-63641467882101790722009-05-16T05:16:00.000+01:002009-05-16T05:16:00.000+01:00Okay, Alex. You and I have just had different expe...Okay, Alex. You and I have just had different experiences with people. I guess time will either make us change our minds or reaffirm how we feel already.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17439628067348828822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-78048278730043785512009-05-13T22:30:00.000+01:002009-05-13T22:30:00.000+01:00It really is a pleasure to read whatever you write...It really is a pleasure to read whatever you write... always very wise.<br />Hate is something everyone finds, whatever you do, wherever they go. It's the result of being different, and everyone is.<br />I went through really bad situations at school aswell, but I'm still alive. And acting the way I acted back then towards those who wanted problems, I see that punching back is not the right way of answering back. Time will answer back at them one day. It is as they say "what goes around comes around".<br />I never thought the "catholic vs protestant" issue was that tuff/hard in America anyway.<br />All the problems go beyond the "religion" thing...Joelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-34184127979139819212009-05-13T11:43:00.000+01:002009-05-13T11:43:00.000+01:00I think a lot of people use various covers as a re...I think a lot of people use various covers as a reason for their hatred towards others. Religion has been a favourite for centuries and yet doesn't the bible tell us to: do onto others as you would have them to do onto you? When I'm confronted with a particular situation I would say to myself: <I>Would I like someone to say that to me? Would I like someone to treat me like that? No and no, so I'm going to behave myself</I>.<br /><br />Why do people hate? Well Im not a psychologist but I assume that it makes the person feel good about themselves, they think they are superior. In fact, they are the ones who have problems or issues and this is reflected in their behaviour.Damo Mackerelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14225139210177653458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-38043955590861280102009-05-13T05:17:00.000+01:002009-05-13T05:17:00.000+01:00My experience of atheists and agnostics is that th...My experience of atheists and agnostics is that they are far less likely to judge based on appearance, gender or sexuality. When I look at less religious political parties I note that they are the ones who have more women and gays. Coincidence?<br /><br />Given that I lived in NY and NC and had boyfriends whose families were Southern Bapstists and Church of the Nazarene respectively I think I can speak from experience as you do. I had a bit of Irish Catholic malarkey, but by and large it was quelled when I said I wasn't Catholic but atheist. Have you tried the same? They really didn't care so long as I wasn't swinging rosary beads in their faces.<br /><br />Thanks so much for lowering the whole tone by suggesting that what you and AI are discussing is so much above my station. If you talk to people like that in real life, it may not be your religion that sets them off.<br /><br />But you're right, my agenda is anti-religion, and I reckon it's a pretty admirable agenda at that.Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-51392571578680623562009-05-11T21:06:00.000+01:002009-05-11T21:06:00.000+01:00And American Irish : Even if part of my uncontroll...And American Irish : Even if part of my uncontrolled reactionary thinking was to see you as "the enemy", I think your philosophy on dealing with your adversaries is very smart, and- I swear to God- I'm so on your side and really hope you keep kicking ass, both literally and figuratively.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17439628067348828822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-33541207664158781662009-05-11T20:57:00.000+01:002009-05-11T20:57:00.000+01:00Alex : Secular separation of church and state is t...Alex : Secular separation of church and state is the best, of course, but officially atheist governments have proven to be as bad as theocracies (even as far as mass murder goes). And I do know a number of agnostics- they're a varied bunch. Some are as vicious as can be (a few are nice). These are my own experiences, anyway. Also, the Protestant versus Catholic stuff that goes on in NYC is hardly based on religion, or any type of theology in the long run. It's a snobbery culture-clash thing (gays who move to NYC think it's "classy" to hate Irish Catholics), often imposed by those with no religious belief at all, just that they're culturally (almost "ethnically") Protestant (or Catholic). And believe me, if you ever thought your rejecting the Catholic Church means you'd be more accepted amongst NYC gay elites, you'd quickly learn that you're still inherently Irish-Catholic to them. I see how your agenda here is an anti-religion one, but I think American Irish and I are discussing things far beyond that.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17439628067348828822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-68637407754753885772009-05-11T18:42:00.000+01:002009-05-11T18:42:00.000+01:00I agree with this post wholeheartedly. I hope I ca...I agree with this post wholeheartedly. I hope I can have that courage and will to just smile and walk away one day.Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08995738697107285869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-64076818026413326462009-05-11T17:57:00.000+01:002009-05-11T17:57:00.000+01:00Wisdom with a huge dose of heart. Your are an exce...Wisdom with a huge dose of heart. Your are an exceptional human being AI.Wendynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-87924705381120714062009-05-11T06:50:00.000+01:002009-05-11T06:50:00.000+01:00Sorry Joey, do you not know any atheists/agnostics...Sorry Joey, do you not know any atheists/agnostics? In my experience virtually everyone cites god and the bible as reasons they think homosexuality is wrong. I sincerely doubt the people you've dealt with are so different.<br /><br />Instead of the Soviets, how about looking at secular states in America versus the more religious ones? or the highly secular Scandinavian countries versus religious Italy and Turkey?<br /><br />Of course it's more complex than atheists=good, religionists=bad, but your average atheist/agnostic is far more accepting than the average Christian/Muslim. Remember a lot of the homophobia in society is generated and propagated by churches and their lobby groups.Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-82207569377091407682009-05-11T06:30:00.000+01:002009-05-11T06:30:00.000+01:00Thanks again for your story in that full post, A.I...Thanks again for your story in that full post, A.I. (And don't mean to interfere with your work!)Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17439628067348828822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-82752789174744233102009-05-11T06:27:00.000+01:002009-05-11T06:27:00.000+01:00Hi Alex : I have to (respectfully) disagree with y...Hi Alex : I have to (respectfully) disagree with you there. I've seen no evidence that agnostics/atheists are any more open-minded than the religious. Secular ethnic/cultural disagreements still hold strong, and atheists/agnostics sure aren't any less homophobic (look how gays were treated under the atheist Soviet government). I'm not saying your conclusion is totally false (there are probably some true aspects to it) but I think there's a bigger, more complex, picture.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17439628067348828822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-46644992612623928672009-05-11T06:17:00.000+01:002009-05-11T06:17:00.000+01:00And Alex, thanks for the comment.And Alex, thanks for the comment.American Irishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17735396614398596021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-32644256975472990812009-05-11T06:16:00.000+01:002009-05-11T06:16:00.000+01:00Joey, sorry it took me so long to post this. I had...Joey, sorry it took me so long to post this. I had to finish it once I got to the ship. I have to get to work now, but I wanted to comment on your second comment above. When I first started learning about "gay life" I was amazed and shocked by how easy it was for gay men to hurt other gay men with words and deeds. That still bothers me to this day when I see it or hear about it. Hugs, I have to get to work. Enjoy your week.American Irishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17735396614398596021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-16049368519001661582009-05-11T06:02:00.000+01:002009-05-11T06:02:00.000+01:00Like you say, people who give someone a hard time ...Like you say, people who give someone a hard time for being American or Irish or any other nationality are only showing the world how ignorant they are.<br /><br />People who give you a hard time for being affiliated with an oppressive religion... well they may be rude but they may also be right. You can't change what country you were born in, but you can choose your church.<br /><br />I don't buy the cultural elements of religion in Western countries. Sure, my friends in the Middle East can't leave Islam without causing a lot of trouble, but the same isn't really true in Europe or the US. As an Irishman brought up Catholic (and having lived in the US), I have no problem rejecting the church and still feeling 100% Irish. If my family had had a problem with that then, like your buddies, the good ones would have remained. Thankfully they were all good.<br /><br />If there were more atheists/agnostics around then there would likely be fewer problems for women, gays, or indeed anyone who thinks differently to the mainstream. If we all accepted that our lives are fleeting and insignificant, and could draw strength from the fact that we'll just be absorbed back into the beautiful, limitless universe then we'd be all the stronger for it.<br /><br />High five for the positive attitude to aggressors, nul points for clinging to imaginary skyghosts.Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-6373887326565059602009-05-11T05:50:00.000+01:002009-05-11T05:50:00.000+01:00On a positive note, a recent talk with a NYC (Prot...On a positive note, a recent talk with a NYC (Protestant) musician got us both concluding that the world of music and the world of sports (like boxing, especially) are two areas where one is most likely to cross "party lines" and we can just be men together. Hope so.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17439628067348828822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-14270438210732353512009-05-11T05:47:00.000+01:002009-05-11T05:47:00.000+01:00P.S. - Just one last thing (since everybody's stor...P.S. - Just one last thing (since everybody's story will be different). I've experienced more hate from gays for being "too straight" than from straights for being gay. (..okay...I'll drop this subject..)Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17439628067348828822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8240509020502122461.post-56267023818564481872009-05-11T05:44:00.000+01:002009-05-11T05:44:00.000+01:00I already apologized and posted that it was none o...I already apologized and posted that it was none of my business before I saw yor post, but your answer is appreciated anyway. Thanks. Best.Joeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17439628067348828822noreply@blogger.com